Comments on: Unionless $125,000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/ Observations from the Other Side of the Lens Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:15:36 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: I Hate this Gosh-Darn Job, and I Don’t Need It « On the Tenure Track http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-683 I Hate this Gosh-Darn Job, and I Don’t Need It « On the Tenure Track Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:14:46 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-683 [...] isn’t going to increase anytime soon for those of us not in New York City, so that reducing stress thing just might be viable. Mr. K has some thoughts on that. [...] [...] isn’t going to increase anytime soon for those of us not in New York City, so that reducing stress thing just might be viable. Mr. K has some thoughts on that. [...]

]]> By: dkzody http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-536 dkzody Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:33:03 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-536 It's as I've been saying, I don't see a lot of people lining up to take my job...and even fewer who want my principal's job. This is hard work that gets blasted every day in the press. Teachers are blamed for every ill in society and this is after major training and education to get the job in the first place. I'm grateful for a union that does so much for us, and pats us on the back for doing our job, because no one else is looking out for teachers. It’s as I’ve been saying, I don’t see a lot of people lining up to take my job…and even fewer who want my principal’s job. This is hard work that gets blasted every day in the press. Teachers are blamed for every ill in society and this is after major training and education to get the job in the first place. I’m grateful for a union that does so much for us, and pats us on the back for doing our job, because no one else is looking out for teachers.

]]> By: eyeingtenure http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-476 eyeingtenure Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:28:35 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-476 Well said, Mr. Dyer. The comment isn't that "I don't get paid enough to teach your kid how to read." The comment is that teachers don't get paid enough for them to be uniformly excellent. Well said, Mr. Dyer. The comment isn’t that “I don’t get paid enough to teach your kid how to read.” The comment is that teachers don’t get paid enough for them to be uniformly excellent.

]]> By: Jason Dyer http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-472 Jason Dyer Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:10:54 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-472 Well, in terms of their immediate situation, they certainly will get more of their choice of teachers by paying more, and are able to pick an elite crew. In terms of their goal of general salary increase, it's more the idea of attracting talented people to the profession in the first place. I could double my salary by quitting my job and getting an engineering one at a local company. Some talented people have wanted to switch to teaching but couldn't afford the pay cut. Once there's more a choice of talented teachers, the idea is that the mediocre ones will get booted out of the loop because there will be enough talent to go around rather than having all the schools begging for scraps. Well, in terms of their immediate situation, they certainly will get more of their choice of teachers by paying more, and are able to pick an elite crew.

In terms of their goal of general salary increase, it’s more the idea of attracting talented people to the profession in the first place. I could double my salary by quitting my job and getting an engineering one at a local company. Some talented people have wanted to switch to teaching but couldn’t afford the pay cut.

Once there’s more a choice of talented teachers, the idea is that the mediocre ones will get booted out of the loop because there will be enough talent to go around rather than having all the schools begging for scraps.

]]> By: Brown http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-468 Brown Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:06:23 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-468 Ok here is my take on this... If they are paying teachers more the implication is they will teach better? Its kind of insulting to my character, as if I am not teaching to the best of my ability because I am underpaid. "I could get your child to read but they aren't paying me enough." I do not think you would find this comment anywhere. Ok here is my take on this… If they are paying teachers more the implication is they will teach better? Its kind of insulting to my character, as if I am not teaching to the best of my ability because I am underpaid.

“I could get your child to read but they aren’t paying me enough.”

I do not think you would find this comment anywhere.

]]> By: eyeingtenure http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-463 eyeingtenure Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:13:44 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-463 Appreciate the comments --- I'm glad to some some varied perspectives. Maybe the question is, or should be, could unions keep on good terms with administration and the public if districts weren't so large, where there would be a lot of "unethical and uninformed people" in a position of authority? It seems that because New York City's union is so nefariously large that it begins to resemble the Teamsters. Or is the blame on mostly anti-union media coverage, or the effects of a popular mayor or superintendent blaming the union with obstruction? Or is there some other cause? <b>CW:</b> Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one finding useful this exercise in daily blogging. Appreciate the comments — I’m glad to some some varied perspectives.

Maybe the question is, or should be, could unions keep on good terms with administration and the public if districts weren’t so large, where there would be a lot of “unethical and uninformed people” in a position of authority? It seems that because New York City’s union is so nefariously large that it begins to resemble the Teamsters.

Or is the blame on mostly anti-union media coverage, or the effects of a popular mayor or superintendent blaming the union with obstruction? Or is there some other cause?

CW: Thanks. I’m glad I’m not the only one finding useful this exercise in daily blogging.

]]> By: CW http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-459 CW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:34:38 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-459 By the way, I am enjoying reading your blog very much. I'm currently working with a student teacher at my school, and it's been helpful to remember what it looks like from the other side. Best of luck with your work! By the way, I am enjoying reading your blog very much. I’m currently working with a student teacher at my school, and it’s been helpful to remember what it looks like from the other side. Best of luck with your work!

]]> By: CW http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-458 CW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:33:49 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-458 I'd be curious how many of the posters here have worked full-time, and for how long, and in what kind of districts. With all due respect, there seems to be a good deal of unfounded optimism out there. After just six years of teaching in a very high-income suburban district, I can't even count how many parents I've seen harassing my colleagues (and me on one occasion) unfairly through their speed-dial lawyers. I wouldn't teach here without a union. Ever. The "lower" pay is more than made up for through benefits, pension, advocacy, legal advice, legal services, support systems, and peace of mind. No matter how great a teacher you are, unethical and uninformed people (and there are more of them out there than I care to admit) can end up in a position of authority over you and hurt your career for no legitimate reason. Being able to do my job with excellence without worrying about those people is the best service my union provides me. In the long run that "luxury" in the best interest of my students AND me. I’d be curious how many of the posters here have worked full-time, and for how long, and in what kind of districts. With all due respect, there seems to be a good deal of unfounded optimism out there. After just six years of teaching in a very high-income suburban district, I can’t even count how many parents I’ve seen harassing my colleagues (and me on one occasion) unfairly through their speed-dial lawyers. I wouldn’t teach here without a union. Ever. The “lower” pay is more than made up for through benefits, pension, advocacy, legal advice, legal services, support systems, and peace of mind. No matter how great a teacher you are, unethical and uninformed people (and there are more of them out there than I care to admit) can end up in a position of authority over you and hurt your career for no legitimate reason. Being able to do my job with excellence without worrying about those people is the best service my union provides me. In the long run that “luxury” in the best interest of my students AND me.

]]> By: dkzody http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-457 dkzody Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:07:04 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-457 I love our union...when I was hired almost 20 years ago, it was as a long-term sub. The district decided to make me a permanent teacher in January after the gal I was replacing could not pass the CBEST. The union went to bat for me (without my asking) and got my hire date reset to August 29. That's been worth a great deal when it comes to seniority. Our union has fought some mighty battles to get pay raises and benefits. I enjoy my pay (and think it's very good) and I love our benefits. We have premium health care that the district sure wouldn't give us on on their own. Oh, they would provide it for our superintendent who makes an embarrassingly high salary for what he has done. My principal would sure like to have the union representation we have. I love our union…when I was hired almost 20 years ago, it was as a long-term sub. The district decided to make me a permanent teacher in January after the gal I was replacing could not pass the CBEST. The union went to bat for me (without my asking) and got my hire date reset to August 29. That’s been worth a great deal when it comes to seniority.

Our union has fought some mighty battles to get pay raises and benefits. I enjoy my pay (and think it’s very good) and I love our benefits. We have premium health care that the district sure wouldn’t give us on on their own. Oh, they would provide it for our superintendent who makes an embarrassingly high salary for what he has done. My principal would sure like to have the union representation we have.

]]> By: Jason Dyer http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/unionless-125000/#comment-456 Jason Dyer Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:49:13 +0000 http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-456 Benjamin: Good point! Are you familiar with <a href="http://papers.nber.org/papers/w13443" rel="nofollow">this paper</a>? Comparing those who entered the Chicago school-choice lottery and won and those who entered and lost there was essentially no difference; between those who entered the lottery (involved parents) and those who who didn't (uninvolved parents), there was significant difference. Neal: Overall point understood. Just busting chops, is all. Benjamin: Good point!

Are you familiar with this paper? Comparing those who entered the Chicago school-choice lottery and won and those who entered and lost there was essentially no difference; between those who entered the lottery (involved parents) and those who who didn’t (uninvolved parents), there was significant difference.

Neal: Overall point understood. Just busting chops, is all.

]]>